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Interview with Steve Hackett about “Genesis Revisited” (1996)

Steve Hackett spoke about Genesis Revisited and other projects in an interview with Helmut Janisch on 22 October 1996.

Steve Hackett’s Genesis Revisited album was originally only available in Japan, later also elsewhere. In 1996, its release was a surprise for many fans. This interview was conducted in 1996. The original transcript was done in German language for the German fanclub magazine and we have re-translated it carefully.


On 22 October ‘96 we had the opportunity to ask Steve questions about his current album and his future projects.

GNC: In the past, you have always played the odd Genesis song at your concerts. However, very few fans would have expected a release like Genesis Revisited, with Genesis cover versions, from you. What was the idea behind the album?
Steve: Well, most people know me for my work with Genesis, and I always thought that I was being judged in some way for something I did a long, long time ago. Over the years I’ve felt that if I’d had more influence on the production and the technology to do certain things back then, I might have done things a little bit differently. It seems like I’ve always been judged by that phase where I saw myself more in a developmental process.

And so I thought it would be nice to be remembered in that context, that I worked with a certain degree of precision then, as I do now.Another reason is that a lot of people have asked me if I would ever join a band like Genesis again. After a while you realise that it’s not just nostalgia for the fans, it’s something beyond that. Maybe it’s an essential part of their lifestyle. I don’t think songs are written that way anymore. Even the most experimental musicians seem to be a bit more inhibited. So I wondered if it wouldn’t be interesting to take all these Genesis songs that were lyrical and had something magical, escapist, fantastical, prophetic or something like that, and confront them with modern production techniques.

I also thought that some passages would benefit from the use of an orchestra, so I tried that. I was also interested in how the drums would sound today. It was kind of like: The modern world looking back at the old world. I feel that tracks that are very old are no longer old-fashioned, they become classics, provided they stand the test of time and people still buy them. At a certain point, for example, people stop saying that Frank Sinatra is old-fashioned, but that he is a classic artist in his field.

I wanted to go one step further and incorporate a bit of jazz

Steve Hackett Genesis Revisited Album

I want to try and describe the music that certain bands were making at that time. It was very experimental, but also very eclectic, a lot of things were brought together. I wanted to expand on that in some way. At that time, classical music influenced the music, as well as big bands, which perhaps found expression in the rhythms, and of course books and fairy tales, which were reflected in the lyrics.

I wanted to go one step further and incorporate a bit of jazz. I first finished the album for the Japanese because they wanted it as soon as possible. But I wanted to include one more piece: a version of Los Endos, which I have since recorded with Hugo Degenhardt, Pino Palladino and a number of South American percussionists. There was also Ian McDonald, who I became friends with in 1969, just after King Crimson broke up. I always wanted to do something with him and that’s how it came about. He’ll also be in my band when I play four shows in Japan in December. Chester Thompson, John Wetton and Julian Colbeck will also be on tour with me.

GNC: Was it difficult to remember the old pieces and how did you feel about playing them again after such a long time?
Steve: I wanted to make sure that they sounded very good, so I set a very high standard for myself. I wanted them to sound as good as possible. I spent long nights on it, especially towards the end of the recording when I realised that everything had to be done in a month, not six months as I had originally thought.

During that time I got up at 6 in the morning and worked until midnight every day. That was the only way I could do it. I would get up and plan the day. Everything was written down: my daily routine, ideas for the arrangements and the production. It was a huge amount of paper. When everything was ticked off on a piece of paper, it went into the wastepaper basket and then I moved on. I couldn’t do much on inspiration. Inspiration works when you have a lot of time, but when you’re working towards a deadline and you want to be very good, you have to be much more organised than usual. You can’t just try this or that.

GNC: Why was Genesis Revisited released in Japan first?
Steve: The Japanese were the first to be interested in bringing it out and raising money for it. I think they were excited by the concept. I think they also have a very broad taste in music. Something like this album is always fashionable in Japan, and they like people who make their music with attention to detail. There seems to be a big market for this kind of music there.

GNC: How did you get in touch with them?
Steve: I don’t remember exactly. Some people had recommended them to us, and in the end a Japanese guy helped us with this contract, and he also arranged record deals in Japan for some of the other musicians who play on Genesis Revisited, for example. Like I said, there is a lot of interest in this music in Japan. I’m not talking about the fans – not that I want to offend the Japanese public, I’ve never been there – but from a purely business point of view. The companies there are very interested and willing to put money into such projects because of the popularity of certain bands there.

GNC: When will the album be released elsewhere?
Steve: That’s a question I don’t have the answer to yet. We are working on it, but I don’t know when it will be. It’s not entirely in my hands. But it should be possible to import the CD somehow. I would have liked to release the album worldwide at the same time, but I have to admit that this is no longer possible for me.

Sometimes life takes a different path. It hasn’t been ‘easy’ for me – at least not since 1979. In the 70s everything was much easier. You could write an album, record it and release it more or less worldwide in the same year. Life itself was pretty uncomplicated. But business doesn’t work the way it used to. For example, if a company releases a CD in one country or part of the world, it doesn’t mean that the parent company of that company is automatically allowed to release the CD elsewhere. It would be nice, but it is not possible. So at the moment there is only the contract with Mercury in Japan and nothing else. I’m sorry, but I’m just as frustrated as everyone else. But the CD will be released everywhere eventually.

My version of The Lamb Lies Down … was really interesting.

GNC: You mentioned Los Endos earlier. Will that track be on future versions of the album?
Steve: Yes, I want to add Los Endos and take one or two of the non-Genesis songs off the CD to enhance the overall Genesis impression.

GNC: Have you recorded or at least rehearsed any other tracks for the album?
Steve: Yes, I also worked on some other songs and started to record them. I recorded Los Endos in a very dynamic version. I also tried In That Quiet Earth, but the way the song developed I couldn’t use it. However, I did use a section of Firth Of Fifth that was intended for it. I also started to record The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. But in the end I felt that song was more associated with Peter Gabriel and I decided it was best to leave it to Peter himself to maybe re-record The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway at some point, but my version of The Lamb Lies Down … was really interesting.

it: Who was the singer on that one?
Steve: I didn’t have a singer at the time – I sang a lead vocal myself. At some point I thought it was the person singing the song rather than the music itself. Maybe it’s not so easy for a song like that to become a classic when it’s so linked to a person. There are some tribute bands and albums, but this song certainly doesn’t mean as much to people as some of the other early material. Anyway, maybe I’m wrong and could have done a great version. But I decided to leave it alone and maybe I’ll try it again sometime.

I don’t think I’m going to make the Genesis revival my life’s work

it: Would you like to re-record further tracks?
Steve: I have thought about it, but the ones I would have been interested in would have been even harder. There are still a lot of wonderful songs, but I don’t think I’m going to make the Genesis revival my life’s work. There’s not enough in it for that. I was just thinking that if I got my hands on an Eric Clapton album that said ‘E. C. plays Cream songs’ or ‘E. C. plays John Mayall’ that would make me very curious because that was something I was interested in at the time. So I imagine it could be similar with Revisited.

If you like Genesis, you’ll probably like this album. I think the music back then was a lot more detailed and not so simple and Revisited is a very detailed album with very complicated arrangements on some of the songs. There’s a lot going on. I wanted it to be a kind of musical journey that takes you to a lot of different places. The songs are very different and I don’t think there’s really a consistent style. Some of it sounds more classical and some of it sounds more modern.

I think my Genesis Revisited album sounds more like Genesis than anything Genesis will do in the future.

it: The list of guest musicians includes many well-known names. Did anyone else you wanted to sign for the album turn you down?
Steve: Hm, … no, I think I got pretty much everyone I wanted and I’m very happy about that, because they’re all musicians who do their job very well.

GNC: Did you also ask other (ex-)members of Genesis if they wanted to work on the project?
Steve: Yes, I have. For example, I asked Tony if he would play with Los Endos and he said yes. Then he called me a few weeks later and cancelled because they were in the process of rebuilding Genesis. He thought it would be problematic for him to work with me while Genesis was in a reorganisation phase and that it would be much more ‘politically incorrect’ to see him on my side of the fans, in my camp. I think my Genesis Revisited album sounds more like Genesis than anything Genesis will do in the future. But it’s also a question of interpretation, what you think of as Genesis, isn’t it?

My album will probably satisfy the traditionalists, whereas I expect that whatever they do, it will probably go down in the pop market. There are only a few people left from Genesis, and if you add up the musicians I have on the album – like Bill, who was part of Genesis, like Chester, who was sort of part of the band, and John Wetton, who was once in talks to be the singer for Genesis after Peter left – it’s an absolutely incredible line-up. Genesis as a band is getting smaller and smaller, whereas I wanted my version of these songs to be bigger and bigger. That’s why there were so many different singers and characters involved.

It’s interesting to see what different singers and musicians do with the material, because each of them hears it differently. It is indeed a project, and I’m not saying it’s Genesis.

Deja Vu was intended for Selling England By The Pound but the band never finished it

GNC: Richard Macphail mentioned to us that he sang not only the ‘backing vocals’ on Your Own Special Way, but also the ‘lead vocals’ on a demo version of Deja Vu. What happened to that version and is it true that you originally wanted Peter Gabriel to sing?
Steve: Richard is now a very successful businessman in his own right, but he always wanted to continue singing. So he offered to help me with it and I said: Well, I’ve got this version of the song that Pete did. I’d already done a demo at that point, which I sang on myself, and Richard sang on another one. We were trying to remember what key Peter was singing in at the time. Pete wanted me to finish the song and he was happy for me to use it.

I think he just didn’t want to sing it again, but he said he might record a version himself one day. So I tried Paul Carrack, who I think is an excellent singer. Funnily enough… when I did GTR with Steve Howe, I wanted Paul Carrack to be the singer, but the others weren’t keen. So unfortunately it was many years before I got to work with him. He’s very good, very professional. He sang both songs, Your Own Special Way and On My Way … or rather Deja Vu on the same day, even though he had a cold. It wasn’t easy for him to sing, but despite the cold he sounds wonderful.

GNC: What is Deja Vu based on? Did you have recordings of the Selling England … sessions?
Steve: No, I only had the memory of this song, which wasn’t finished at the time, but I always liked the melody and the idea. It has a very interesting story. And then it took 23 years to write, which is a very long time for a song.

it: Have you been working on it all these years?
Steve: Oh no. It was intended for Selling England By The Pound but the band never finished it. It had a strange, mysterious feeling to me. It was very difficult to record and I tried a lot of different arrangements, like drums and percussion during the verses. But somehow it didn’t work, so in the end I didn’t use any rhythm in the verses, just in the middle part. It’s funny… some songs that are more about the lyrics than a rhythm sometimes slow down when you add drums. Some work better and flow more without the addition of drums. Acoustic material and of course a lot of classical music wouldn’t benefit much from drums as we know them.

it: In the CD booklet you write that Riding The Colossus was recorded in 1963. Did you write the song back then?
Steve: It was an idea I had … oh God … a long time ago. But that version was different from the current one. It had bass strings and it sounded more like The Shadows. There must have been an old recording of it somewhere, but I don’t know what happened to it. So it’s very old and it took a long time…

it: The cover artwork is Kim’s?
Steve: Yes, it’s a collage, a photomontage that she put together on the computer from various pictures from different places.

GNC: Is the drawing of Adam and Eve by her?
Steve: No, it comes from a classical painting. I don’t know who painted it. It shows Adam and Eve being expelled from paradise.

it: Did you know that an artwork that was created to illustrate Peter Gabriel’s song Steam shows, among other things, exactly this detail (Editor: bottom right on the inside of the ‘right’ door leaf)?
Steve: Really? I didn’t know that. Isn’t that interesting? I think it’s pure coincidence.

it: There are some objects on the cover that look like UFOs. What was Kim’s idea?
Steve: The idea for the cover came from both of us. I told her that I wanted a kind of Watcher Of The Skies feeling, a feeling of aliens visiting planet Earth with their powerful technology. Adam and Eve as a primitive man and woman should be a contrast to that. In fact, it now looks as if they have been ‘beamed up’ to be experimented on, or ‘beamed down’ to be the creation of an alien culture. You can draw your own conclusions. It’s sort of an open interpretation of Watcher Of The Skies.

it: Speaking of Kim, how is her long-planned new book, Legends Of The Amazon, coming along?
Steve: She is still trying to get it published and has a lot of pictures for it. She is talking to several publishers and as soon as she agrees with one, the book will be published. However, as with many things in the pipeline, some things are not always so simple. Once a contract was as good as perfect, but the publishing world can be very strange. Sometimes publishers run out of money and can’t even pay you the advance they promised. Then you start to wonder if you’ll ever see any money, or if it’ll all end in a single negative transaction.

Musicians can sometimes be much more professional than the publishers they deal with. In the past you might have been naive enough to expect the best from someone. Nowadays, however, we tend to be very careful about what we do in business and who we deal with. If that means it takes a little longer, then it takes a little longer. It’s better than being unpleasantly surprised when something doesn’t turn out the way you wanted it to.

GNC: Let’s talk about the concerts you’ll be playing in Japan in December. Are they only taking place to promote Revisited, or are there other reasons?
Steve: Well, the other reason is that the Japanese company has released seven of my albums and Revisited is just one of them. So I’m playing there to promote a lot of different things. I’m also hoping that maybe at some point I can work on some new material with the band I’m taking to Japan – that’s my intention with this – a long-term goal with these musicians.

GNC: Which songs will be performed in Japan?
Steve: I’ve just sent the guys a tape of possible tracks. At the moment it looks like we’re going to do quite a lot. I can’t say exactly what because we haven’t rehearsed everything yet, so I don’t know what will work with this band and what won’t.

GNC: But surely songs from Revisited are also part of the set?
Steve: Some of them – sure, but not all of them.

Nowadays it seems to me that you can either use your money to make albums or to go on tour. Only if you make albums you are more likely to have something to show for it at the end of the day

GNC: We haven’t heard from Chester Thompson for a long time. He wasn’t part of Phil Collins’ band on his last tour either. Do you know what he’s been doing since the end of the We Con’t Dance tour?
Steve: Chester and I have remained friends over the years. I understand he moved from Los Angeles to Nashville. He bought a house and a farm and set up a studio on the farm. I think he was involved in various musical projects. I don’t know much more than that. I’ve heard that he played on a lot of albums by a lot of different artists, like Duane Eddy.

Nashville is also the centre of the Christian music business, and Chester is a very religious person, so maybe he was involved in that as well. I don’t know, but I’m sure I’ll find out more when I go on tour with him soon. I wanted to do something with him that could develop into a band. We’re hoping to do that now with Lan McDonald and the others.

GNC: Can you imagine performing with this band in Europe?
Steve: It’s possible – I hope so. All I know is that the Japanese have offered us a contract that makes the tour possible. If I go on tour, I also want to be sure that I don’t lose a lot of money. Nowadays it seems to me that you can either use your money to make albums or to go on tour. Only if you make albums you are more likely to have something to show for it at the end of the day. It was always very difficult for me to go on tour without making a loss. Unfortunately, when a band goes on tour, everything has to be run like a business. In Japan people are used to paying very high ticket prices. That makes it possible to go on tour with such a super group.

A Midsummer Night’s Dream is a conscious separation of those energies, where I deliberately don’t use electric guitar or drums

GNC: We’ve heard that you’re currently working on something that combines acoustic guitar with orchestral music and is based on Shakespeare’s A Midsummer Night’s Dream.
Steve: Yes, that’s right. The orchestral parts will be recorded later this month. As you know, I’m very interested in classical music and I think it’s the most challenging acoustic music I’ve written for guitar and orchestra. It’s easier to do than rock music because you’re dealing with a minimum of people: a guitarist, an engineer, a manager, a person who does the cover, and at least 60 people in the orchestra, but they’re all working as one person. Even when you’re dealing with an orchestra, it’s as if it’s just one person. One particular person agrees to work with you. Someone else conducts, and that person can also arrange.

In this case it’s a cousin of mine called Matt Dunkley, a trumpet player I’ve worked with in the past. He also worked on the Revisited album where he wrote the arrangements and did a fantastic job. So if you’ve done your homework, it’s possible to do everything with a minimum of fuss. The tracks on the album were collected over a long period of time. I recorded a number of acoustic pieces over the years, and whenever one was finished, I moved on to the next. I think it’s very strong musically because I took my time with it. It was nice to do that and I love that kind of music. I would say it pleases me more than it excites me.

Rock music is probably very exciting music, but when I listen to the most beautiful classical music, I can’t say that it excites me in the same way. But I certainly enjoy being moved and having my emotions stirred. I can listen to classical music and find something very beautiful and uplifting, but it doesn’t usually make me dance or move. It’s a different kind of energy. Sometimes I try to combine the two, like with Genesis Revisited, which is a mixture of both energies. A Midsummer Night’s Dream is a conscious separation of those energies, where I deliberately don’t use electric guitar or drums. Everything has a much quieter mood.

GNC: When will the album be finished?
Steve: I have to finish work on it before I go to Japan. EMI in England are probably going to release it next February. I’ve actually been very busy with these two projects, which are complete opposites. They both mean a lot to me, although in different ways.

Interview, German Transcript: Helmut Janisch
re-translated by Christian Gerhardts (+ AI)
first published in it-Magazine #21, December 1996

Genesis Revisited was eventually released worldwide in autumn 1997 and re-released in 2012. In North America, it was called Watcher Of The Skies – Genesis Revisited.

The worldwide version contains these tracks:

Watcher Of The Skies
Dance On A Volcano
Valley Of The Kings
Deja Vu
Firth Of Fifth
For Absent Friends
Your Own Special Way
Fountain Of Salmacis
Waiting Room Only
I Know What I Like
Los Endos

The Janapese version contained Riding The Colossus instead of Los Endos and had a different running order.

Links:
Different Genesis Revisited versions on Discogs